Engine Swap Forum

hey guys.

    Ive been contracted to build a VQ35DE powered 260z. Heres the car
The 350z drivelines been purchased, im pulling the L series motor today. I found the Hybrid How To in SCC and had some questions. have you guys figured out a way to arm the VTC and make it work since the article printed? My client has offered to buy Motec if thats the only solution but i cant see spending another 5600 dollars on Motec just to get the motor to run the right way when an LS1 swap is so much easier and cheaper!. Have you guys done any dyno runs with the VTC dissabled? ive been trying to source a used motec from one of the ALMS teams since they are going to all Bosch systems this season... but so far no luck.

As far as the Z suspension being opposite of the S13/s14 suspension ill have to figure that one out myself haha.

Anyways heres some other pictures of my work on my own car thats still not done. 240z

Im glad to see theres still "No Nonsense" all tech forums out there!  

peej410:

hey guys.

    Ive been contracted to build a VQ35DE powered 260z. Heres the car
The 350z drivelines been purchased, im pulling the L series motor today. I found the Hybrid How To in SCC and had some questions. have you guys figured out a way to arm the VTC and make it work since the article printed? My client has offered to buy Motec if thats the only solution but i cant see spending another 5600 dollars on Motec just to get the motor to run the right way when an LS1 swap is so much easier and cheaper!. Have you guys done any dyno runs with the VTC dissabled? ive been trying to source a used motec from one of the ALMS teams since they are going to all Bosch systems this season... but so far no luck.

As far as the Z suspension being opposite of the S13/s14 suspension ill have to figure that one out myself haha.

Anyways heres some other pictures of my work on my own car thats still not done. 240z

Im glad to see theres still "No Nonsense" all tech forums out there!  

 

Welcome to the site, great project! I think this is gonna really catch on with the z car crowd. 

 Nobody has gotten the VTC system to work with the Megasquirt yet and it won't work with the 3.0L ECU if you wanted to use that.  The only option if you really want the VTC is to use a 3.5L ECU or as you said a more sophisticated standalone ECU.  I'd say just go with the 3.5L ECU if the VTC is a priority for you.

There is a considerable loss in midrange torque without the VTC and this has been proven with dyno graphs.  The topend is basically the same though as the VTC's just increase low/midrange power, not top end power.

I'm researching what is needed to run the 3.5L ECU, it doesn't look bad, certainly cheaper and probably much easier then the Motec route.

 

Please keep us up to date on how this comes together!

 

Fred

 

 

 

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Instrument Cluster and Speedometer Repair

Megasquirt VTC thread: http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=20701 (still awaiting an answer from the pro's)

Apparently AEM (~$2500) has a running version of their plug and play system (I don't think it's released yet) but I assume you'd probably end up doing majority of the work required to make the stock ecu work since it's plug and play and since your customer doesn't seem keen on impressing a dyno, I'm not sure it'd be worthwhile going thru all that trouble just to "get it back to at least stock" (plus there's always the <$1000 piggybacks for the stock computer if he/she wants to go turbo after that).

Good looking fabwork u have going there. I'll be sure to mention you to some local Datsun fans (fiends).

May the forces be with you and keep us posted on your progress.

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

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Argh... guess I'll stick w/ the plan...

thanks for the inspiring responses! well after doing some reading on here it seems the biggest hurdle now is the sump. as you guys know the 350z and 240sx have a rear steer and front TC rod (not sure what its called for you guys but thats what the S30 guys call them)  the S30 has front steering rack and the cross member is right where the vq35 sump would be. i really would like to avoid a custom k member type setup and moving the rack/ flipping the arms and using a 240sx rack or something, it might be the only way though. ill have lots of pictures and ill try to do a writeup aswell if i have the time.

From my reading, there appears to be at least 3 different oil pans avalable for the VQ (fwd, rwd & pathfinder). Be sure to explore those as well in determining your optimum resolution.

If none of the available pans work for you, I've found drawings of the oil pan mounting surface (upper and lower) in the FSM which you could use for dxf/G-code 'conversion'. Let me know if u need any assistance.

(For any one else considering a custom oilpan, I'd personally only customize the lower section as the upper section looks to be integral to block rigidity).

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

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Argh... guess I'll stick w/ the plan...

pardon my ignorance but what exactly is dxf/g-code conversion?

i will absolutely take a look a those, thanks!

Sorry, DXF is a file format used by many to exchange 2D drawings while maintaining dimensional integrity (simple & robust format). For our application, we'd use a CAD program to 'trace' the drawings from the FSM, make our dxf files and bring them to the appropriate machine shop to have the [oil pan] flanges cut.

G-code is another universal code used by cnc machines (turning centers, vertical mills, plasma cutters, waterjet, etc). It dictates the necessary movements required by the machine table or head to develop the required part. Most machine shops will have their own G-code compiler and probably won't run your G-code unless you have a very good (trusting) relationship with the owner/operator (it's real easy to run the head into fixtures & jigs with uncoordinated G-code) .

Long story short, we'd just be making the dxf files and bringing it to the appropriate shop for conversion into G-code.
Lemme know if u need any help.

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

P.S. I think I know where this thread is headed next...

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Argh... guess I'll stick w/ the plan...

heh alright, thats stuff i usually leave up to my engineering student buddy. i do all the fab work he takes care of the computer stuff. however its about time i learn, can you guys suggest a good CAD book ?   

where exactly will this head next? heh

my experience resides with porsches and SCCA cars mostly and SBC swaps so all this new fangled VTC CAD CAN ECU junk is uncharted waters for me. luckily ive got you guys haha.

The first choice to make would be what CAD program would benefit you the most. After contemplating for ~2hrs how to make recommendations for a CAD program - without hijacking your thread - here's my best answer: Majority of fabrication shops will benefit from a 'simple' 2D CAD program rather than investing in a solid modeling sofware package (3D). AutoCAD comes to mind due to its universal acceptance and [resulting] ease of assistance. After using SolidWorks I'd rather light my gasoline-soaked body afire while rolling in broken glass before I use AutoCAD again (I know that was a very enticing argument after telling you to buy AutoCAD...) but my motives are driven by 3D models. After all is said and done, if u're going to spend money on a cad program, I'd recommend getting whatever program your engineering student buddy is proficient in. Free training and if u have any problems, u can always call ur "personal tech support personnel". (I can elaborate more about the 2D vs 3D arg if u'd like but for your thread's sake, I'd recommend doing that thru pm's)

U're probably already aware that most of those 'aplhabetic jargons' are just the technical way of describing something that's actually quite elementary in principle. If u hav questions, feel free to ask.

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

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Argh... guess I'll stick w/ the plan...

well i already have solidworks ive done the first tutorial and i guess its time to go play with it again. i understand all the acronyms and all that. im just not too familiar with all the computer related fabrication and computer controlled automobile stuff. my experience relies  with drawings and  carbs. thats all i was getting at.

now another question, the oil pump pickup in a vq35 is obviously in the bottom of the sump, but where is the oil pump it self? IE: could the stock pan be modified (as you sort of suggested) and utilize a modified pickup? or does something stick down into the sump necesitating its current location.

Sweet! Another SldWx user!

I'd say the best way to learn SldWx is to play w/ it. Open ppl's files and see what features they used to create a certain parts and it'll give ideas. U can even try duplicating the files (to see what problems u'll run into). Probably the thing that stands out the most to me about SldWx is that there are at least 3 ways (using different features) to build every part. What you plan to do with the file thereafter should determine what features u use (this is my interpretation of design intent based on experience). As a result, I'd recommend learning the different ways (at which point u'll see the time differences involved) rather than learning "the best way" to model a particular shape. Shoot me a pm w/ an email addy (and the version you're using) and I can shoot you some files to play with if u'd like. Anyway, I'm turning this into a CAD convo... (as I expected).

I'll let Fred answer the oil pump q (with the facts), since he's had some engines to play with. Check the FSM when u get a chance also (why does it sound like I'm selling FSM's?... I'm not. But I do know where they can be found...). I don't remember seeing anything extravagant in the sump assembly.

If it's any help, for another application I'm considering a 'simulated' dry sump setup which uses the stock oil pump as the pressure pump. Still need to run some calcs and bench tests tho. Lemme know if u're interested.

Regards,

H. Kurt Betton

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Argh... guess I'll stick w/ the plan...

peej410:

now another question, the oil pump pickup in a vq35 is obviously in the bottom of the sump, but where is the oil pump it self? IE: could the stock pan be modified (as you sort of suggested) and utilize a modified pickup? or does something stick down into the sump necesitating its current location.

 

peej410,

  The oil pump is driven off of the crankshaft directly so it sits up at crank height.  You shouldn't have any problems relocating the pickup.

 

Fred

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Instrument Cluster and Speedometer Repair

wow i love you guys! i hope some of what i learn in this process will give back to the forum. i will also be considering selling a kit aswell.

a friend of mine showed me a CNC pan someone was contracted to make for a dry sump setup in SCCA to the tune of 2500 a pop! im not really sure id want my client to have to deal with the whole dry sump thing.

i like to keep things to as few parts as possible, i guess its just my nature but the simpler something is to me the better it is for the most part.

now to get this motor on a stand and take a look see in the pan :)

heres some pictures of the preliminary trial.








before you guys say anything about the seatbelt... it was the best way to lift the motor without damaging the composite valvecovers :)

the tranny tunnel needs some sensuous massaging and the cross member needs a cut and paste. then an engine cross member, custom tranny and engine mounts, subframe connectors, custom tranny cross member then exhaust and wiring.

Lookin' great!  So, are you going turbo with the flipped manifolds or are you having to do that for clearance reasons?

 

Fred

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Instrument Cluster and Speedometer Repair